photo by doubledareyaa
I connected with Lisa Baldwin of Divine Order several months ago, after being intrigued by her laid-back yet insightful approach to simplifying and de-cluttering. Lisa is a master of clearing space, minds, and time, and she offers a fresh, empowering perspective to us creative folks. I’ve been hoping to get her on this blog, and now that she’s generously agreed to an interview, you can all vicariously pick her brain with me!
Now seems like the right time to publish this interview, as Lisa is working with Leonie on a “Divine Decluttering & Magical Space Clearing e-course” that guides you in the process of creating a space that not only feels right for you, but also supports your projects and passions. Lisa and Leonie have offered me warm words of support and guidance many-a-time, so I’m very happy to support this unique, wonderful project. When I first stumbled upon Leonie’s work, I thought she was too hippie-woo-woo for us to really relate, but I’ve since discovered that her beautiful values make her work completely accessible and appealing to even the skeptics among us. As a team, Lisa and Leonie create a pretty awesome dynamic. The e-course is geared toward the ladies, but this interview is valuable for everyone!
Interview with Lisa Baldwin
1. How much do you believe physical clutter affects our mental processes? Does a messy desk open the door to a scattered mind?
Clutter is very much in the eye of the beholder – some people are genuinely happy surrounded by a lot of stuff and would find it difficult to work without it. Others get irritated by even the tiniest mess. Most of us are somewhere in between.
The important thing to consider is how you feel about your space. Is it supporting you or holding you back? Do you feel comfortable or stifled? If you feel held back or stifled by your space, then that’s going to affect you regardless of the actual amount of stuff. The effects can be surprisingly far-reaching – focus, confidence and energy can all be affected by a space that feels icky to you. Sometimes we don’t truly recognise that until we start clearing.
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2. We all know the stereotype of the messy creative. But in my personal experience, it’s often tough to be creative when your space is stuffed with clutter. Is there a balance for people who want space for unrestrained creativity, but who don’t want a crowded, chaotic workspace?
Well, the creative process itself is messy — that’s just how it rolls — but the finishing is also part of the process and that’s where you get to make the internal and external space for the next project. So maybe there are parts of what you do that thrive in a little chaos, but there are other parts that need space and order. When you take a mindful, compassionate approach to clearing, you can allow for both needs, either physically or in terms of time.
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3. How did you end up as a “professional simplifier and space-maker”?
I got interested in clutter because I had a lot of it. My home and my life felt overstuffed and overwhelming. As I cleared more space for myself, I realised just how much all that stuff had affected me and how powerful the clutter clearing process could be, and I wanted to help others experience that. It’s about so much more than a pretty space or the perfect container – I help people make space for their awesomeness.
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4. You once commented on a post I wrote about consuming vs. creating, and you wrote:
“What surprises me is that while my clients arrive ready and willing to let go of stuff, few have seriously considered buying less. I don’t mean that as a criticism – to me, it reveals the conflict between a desire to live more simply and the effects of growing up in a time when shopping became an accepted (and expected) leisure activity. (Yes, 1980s – I’m talking about you!) We want to have less, but we’re not quite ready to buy less.
My belief is that we’ve been slowly tip-toeing out of the age of consumption for some time now. It’s a slow shift but we’re noticing that more stuff does not equal more happy.
My hope is that we are now entering an age of discernment. An age where, instead of being distracted by the pursuit of baubles and gadgets, we measure the quality of our lives by the quality of our time, our relationships, and our contribution.”
Do you think decluttering/purging/simplifying often leads to a lasting lifestyle change, or do most people end up reverting back to the former state of clutter/consumerism?
Decluttering is an ongoing process and it can be a lot like changing eating habits or starting an exercise program. It’s so tempting to try to change everything at once, yet that’s the quickest route to burnout; we end up feeling deprived or overwhelmed and go straight back to our old ways. Then, for extra fun, we beat ourselves up because we’ve failed again and that’s not very motivational at all. Who wants to set themselves up for that?
With patience and compassion, we can make tiny shifts over time that add up to sustainable change. Clutter clearing is an act of self-care, not a one-day endurance event. When space-making is approached as a long-term lifestyle change, it’s far more likely that it will last. We become more aware of how stuff comes into our lives, and how much time and energy it takes to manage it all.
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5. Why is it so difficult for some of us to clear space and simplify? Are messy people incurable, or do you think we can all cultivate the habits of simplifying and space-clearing?
There are all kinds of reasons why space clearing and simplifying can be difficult. Overwhelm can be a big issue — knowing where to start, where to finish, or trying to do too much at once can all make a nap look like a better option.
Feelings of guilt and shame can also make it difficult — if you know you’re going to spend your clearing time beating yourself up, then avoiding it is a perfectly sane and reasonable thing to do.
Then there’s the follow-up stuff that gets overlooked — a one-off purge can be wonderful, but without changing some habits here and there, it’s easy to slip back to where you started.
Are messy people incurable? Well, I’m a messy person by nature, but I also crave space, order and simplicity. If you looked at my desk mid-project, you would never guess what I do for a living, but my recovery time is so much faster now. I have less stuff to manage, and I have a good idea of where to put it all when I’m done making a mess.
I believe that we can all find the sweet spot where we can be our messy selves, if that’s who we are, but also be supported by our space. When that happens, we can spend less time looking for the paintbrush and more time making the art, literally or metaphorically.
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What does your creative space look like? Do you flourish with a wild, messy workspace, or do you need a clutter-free canvas?
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You can connect with Lisa on Twitter at @zenatplay, and if you’re interested in the e-course, click here!
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Add your comments below, or click the title of this post if no comment form is visible!
Note: The above links to the decluttering e-course are affiliate links, which means that if you sign up for the course using one of those links, I get appreciation money for helping Lisa and Leonie find their right people for the course. As always, absolutely no pressure to use those links!
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{ 10 comments… read them below or add one }
I LOVE decluttering.
I really hope she’s right, that we’re gradually leaving the age of consumption.
.-= cuileann´s last blog ..Linkage =-.
I read, I clicked, I joined the course. I certainly need this at the moment!
PS. I really like your blog, have been reading without commenting for a while!
.-= B´s last blog ..In wonderland =-.
Just have to say Lisa has really helped me change my relationship to my clutter. She has a way of walking people toward it gently, that really works. I was skeptical, even fearful of going near this Space Monster of mine. But Lisa sat by me, waited until I was ready, and softly opened a space I could walk into.
I started with one shelf of books. It opened a cascade of clarity about where I was getting stuck. I was able to make a huge leap and clear a whole bunch of stuff, reclaim what is important to me, and begin to transform my studio/office space.
.-= Christine Martell´s last blog ..Exploring with images =-.
I don’t really have a creative space as such – I tend to write wherever I happen to be, whether that’s sat on a train, at my dining room table or in a park! At home, though, I tend to be surrounded by clutter, and it isn’t distracting as clutter, it’s distracting as it provides yet another in a long line of excuses NOT to do any writing. Maybe I should tidy first, write later…
@ cuileann – I think it’s a transition that would have to take a long time, but it is starting to show little buds here and there
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@ B – So happy the timing was right for you! Also very happy that you’ve emerged from the shadows to join the conversation… heading over to check out your blog now.
@ Christine – It’s so fascinating to see such clear parallels between our physical and mental space. I love that Lisa reminds us to be conscious of how we treat and think about our environment that way.
@ Icy – I can definitely relate to writing on the go! But I also love being able to write in my home office. I’m still working on the clutter-free desk battle
I am not a decluttered person by nature but I have discovered that being clutter free gives me a since of peace, more time and more money – go figure!
My goal is to teach my children to live decluttered lives so that they don’t face the struggles that I did for most of my life.
.-= Kathryn Lang´s last blog ..Developing a Freelance Writing Platform =-.
@ Kathryn – Isn’t it strange that for many of us, living a cluttered life is the default? Lucky kids, you’ve got
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Nice post. I’ve had the luck (depending on your point of view) of living in very small spaces – clutter comes so quickly you have to do something about it right away. Now I’m pretty much de-cluttered. Pretty much. Don’t ask about the closets.
.-= Lindsay Price´s last blog ..Giving birth =-.
@ Lindsay – That’s a totally legitimate solution — have less space to put stuff. And roomy closets, of course
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This sentence struck me:
“I’m a messy person by nature, but I also crave space, order and simplicity.”
Someone’s been reading my mail.
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