Comments on: What is Freedom?

By: Zoë

Zoë — Sun, 17 May 2009 15:15:56 +0000

Ken — a completely unique contribution, as usual! Thanks for sharing a poetic slice of your perspective

By: Freedom doesn’t buy you medication | Detlef Cordes

Freedom doesn’t buy you medication | Detlef Cordes — Sun, 17 May 2009 08:25:39 +0000

[...] This post was inspired by Zoë Westhof’s “What is Freedom?” [...]

By: Ken Allan

Ken Allan — Fri, 15 May 2009 11:03:31 +0000

When you are shut in a dark chasm till a worm works a tiny hole between you and the outside, that is freedom. When you are tied so tightly no part of you can move till a rat gnaws loose the fetters on your little toe, that is freedom. When your ears are plugged with mud and can sense nothing till you feel the earth tremble, that is freedom. When you live your life and for years speak the same story that no one hears till someone listens, that is freedom. When you look for love for years and never find it till that person says I love you, that is freedom. Ken Allan´s last blog post..New Ways Of Learning?

By: Zoë

Zoë — Fri, 15 May 2009 04:27:54 +0000

@ Win – I certainly agree that dissent is vital to a truly free society, and that we do often take our freedoms for granted. I don’t think that Laura was at all implying that we should be careful not to offend, as she explained above. I think we’re all in agreement about the core here.

@ Laura – Well-said! Yes, you and Jeb have both brought up points that I wanted to see in this discussion… how societal “norms” can be oppressive, and how we can’t truly exercise freedom without questioning and challenging those norms and pressures. When these “ideals” and norms are so deeply ingrained, it can be quite daunting to imagine what it will take to reverse — or even lessen — them. Well, we’ve all got our work cut out for us, in one way or another… So glad to get these sorely-missed doses of Laura-wisdom! Now I’ve got Spain on my mind more than usual…

By: Laura Gatzkiewicz

Laura Gatzkiewicz — Wed, 13 May 2009 17:35:17 +0000

What a minute! I didn’t say that we shouldn’t exercise our freedom if it “offends” others, I said that our freedom should not CURTAIL another’s freedom. I would argue that all of this is probably wrapped up in cultural mores and standards, but believe me, I am a firm believer in freedom of speech, even when others may be offended. We Americans really do take our freedom of speech too much for granted and should always remember that there are countries where speaking out against the government, for example, gets you a prison sentence, not just a dirty look. It is precisely this freedom to voice disagreement that is the barometer of a truly free society.
But that wasn’t what I was talking about. I was talking about when our freedom comes at the price of other people’s. I would tie that back into what Jeb said about trying to stay free from what mass society is convincing us to want or to do. This logically leads me to what I regard as an attack on our inner freedom: the pressure to consume. My “freedom” to buy cheap goods should not come at the cost of child or slave labor in the Third World (I put freedom in quotation marks because I wonder whether the obsession to consume leaves us any personal freedom at all).
As for gay marriage, this fits perfectly into my Kantian argument. No matter what anyone feels on a relgious/personal level, it is patently obvious that allowing gay people to legalize their relationships in order to enjoy fully the rights and obligations that marriage entails in no way infringes on any of my rights. However, the assertion of my “freedom” to ban gay marriage for whatever reason — religious, personal, etc. — clearly does impinge on someone else’s liberty.
Just my ten cents’ worth.

By: Win Clark

Win Clark — Wed, 13 May 2009 16:50:09 +0000

This is a great discussion. Those of us in western democracies too often take our freedom for granted. We often are not willing to fight to maintain or retain that freedom particularly if those with whom we disagree are on the losing side of certain freedoms to dissent with authority or the prevailing popular culture. I would take issue somewhat with Laura that our freedom should be curtailed if others may be offended. We should not be restricted to society’s prevailing opinion of offensive. That only sets up someone or something as the arbitor of “accepted” thoughts and expressions. As much as I would personally disagree with the sanctioning and legal status of gay marriage, I would fight to protect the rights of gays to express their opinion and petition for those rights. Silencing and or punishing dissent for any reason is quintessential tyranny and poses a grave threat to the freedom we have fought and died for.

By: Zoë

Zoë — Wed, 13 May 2009 13:34:26 +0000

Laura, that is indeed a very wise contribution to this discussion … unfortunately, it’s a reality that colors much of the oppression in the world. I actually just went to a symposium this afternoon that ended up addressing a lot of the points in this post. One of the things we discussed was how interconnected social justice is on an individual level — i.e., how much our true freedom is dependent upon the freedom of others. This quote came up:

“If you have come here to help me, you are wasting your time.
But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together.” – Lilla Watson

It’s interesting to remember the deep value of the “Golden Rule” when, as you said, it’s taken such a semantic beating over the years. It truly would provoke drastic change if we all took it seriously…

Jeb, you can hog my blog anytime. Your beautiful response embodies just what I was hoping to say about inner freedom, and how extremely important it is to dramatically shift our mindset if we want to make changes that actually matter.

Blogging plays a similar role for me — it is a way to document the questions and challenges within, and present them as a tool for others to expand their consciousness and contribute to the process.

You also brought up an important point about the barriers you face in the States. We are not truly free if we are not questioning and not challenging the status quo, or the culture and ideas fed to us. The things that are missing from the conversation are just as important as what we hear.

By: Jeb

Jeb — Wed, 13 May 2009 07:47:11 +0000

I cant speak to the challenges freedom-fighters in places like B*rma face every day. That’s not my life and I pray it never will be.

Nonetheless, I’m fighting for freedom in my own way, every minute of every day. It’s this very fight that brought me to blogging in the first place. And as is the case with most of us, I don’t battle on a world stage, in front of millions. I do so primarily within the always solitary, and often lonely, confinement of my own mind.

I have been brought up in a system and under circumstances that encouraged apathy and a lack of personal responsibility. And as a child, these distinctions were tough to recognize. By the time I did, habits had been formed, scars left on the psyche.

And though I’m sitting at my kitchen counter writing this, my bonds are real. As sure as the sun will set on the Rocky Mtns this evening, I’ll suffer the consequences of a life misspent.

I gave too much away. I didn’t invest enough in myself. I willingly walked down the road of consumption, only later understanding its true cost. And so I’m standing on my own personal battlefield, yes. But I don’t think I’m alone. Seems that way sometimes, but I feel sure there are more who have fallen prey to these misaligned societal values, and who now, as if finally waking up from a long coma, are struggling to rid themselves of its influence. A case of too much rope I guess.

As you said, Zoe, only with inner freedom can we begin to spread the reach of genuine freedom. This is where my battlefront exists…within. And I’m happy to be in the fight, if a little late. I’m hopeful that by engaging in these discussions, by honestly approaching these difficult issues and facing them collectively, we’re leaving a record for those who follow.

Instead of continuing to allow the past to be taught by those who win, we’re offering an alternative perspective that will help guide future generations. Help them to find freedom before it’s too late. Though honestly, it’s hope and fear in equal measure. As a father, it’s more than a hypothetical for me.

All of which brings me back around to blogging, and the more personal role it plays in the fight for freedom. Each post acts, for me, as one small spoonful of dirt. I don’t know how long this tunnel I’m digging will have to be, but I feel sure it will set me free. And with any luck, I’ll teach my boys a thing or two about freedom along the way.

Sorry to hog your blog.

Jeb´s last blog post..The Red Button

By: Laura Gatzkiewicz

Laura Gatzkiewicz — Tue, 12 May 2009 15:24:54 +0000

This post is thought provoking, but I think it is wise to add the Kantian Moral Imperative stance (known throughout most of the world as the Golden Rule): your freedom extends only as far as it does not impede another’s freedom. When exercising your personal outer freedom oppresses another, that is no longer liberty, but license. I like your distinction between inner and outer freedom because, of course, inner freedom never impedes anyone’s liberty.
Freedom has, indeed, taken a semantic beating over the years, as has that old saw “Do unto others.. .”. Still, I often invoke the Golden Rule because I believe that it is precisely this philosophy of empathy which really allows us to be free. If more of us resisted doing to others what we ourselves would find offensive (as Rabbi Hillel so cogently put it), perhaps the the endless chain of “got you back” revenge that is so oppressive to so many would end.